What is the difference in these 2 meets? Is one better then the other?
Yes, NXN is much, much better.
Here we go again - this question comes up every year since I have been on the board!
I believe it depends upon what you are trying to accomplish at the end of a long XC season and can not be summed up with one is much much better than the other.
If you are looking to run as a team, I agree that NXN is much, much better - since that is really what it is - a team competition to see what top two teams from the Northeast (minus NY, which has it’s own region) qualify to run in the Team National Championship in Oregon.
Now, if you are looking to finish your year as an individual (or just can’t motivate at least 4 of your teammates to run together one last time), then I would argue that Footlocker (run on a course - VCP -with tremendous XC history) is a much, much better ending for your year. The top ten finishers qualify to run in the individual national championship in San Diego, Ca. What the organizers also try to do is create a team concept as well (Northeast vs. Southeast vs. Midwest vs West), but it really is just an individual meet.
In the end - it really depends upon how you want to end your year - either one is a great ending - although Mcrun 33 brings up a great point about just resting before indoors.
I ABHOR NXN Championship Races:mad:
Regionals are GREAT, however the artificially created
spectator friendly made for TV racetrack course ISNT cross country (IMHO)
Its like watching “monster trucks” in an arena:p
Find a quality facility, REAL hills/REAL challenging terrain,
establish a tradition at that site:cool:
I agree 300kicks - and I’m sure you have seen their PR efforts from earlier this month:
"We don't want to put our competitors out into a giant puddle this year," Nike said today in an emailed release, "so we are taking every precaution possible to create the best race experience." So what changes can we expect in the 2013 tenth anniversary race?
 Added course maintenance throughout the year for better irrigation and preparation.
 Adjustments to the race course and man-made obsticles to avoid problem areas that were identified last yar.
 Extra staff to manage the course and conditions.
 Added water pumps to manage unpredictable rainfall.
[*] Community race will be moved to the end of the schedule in order to promote better conditions for the championship races.[/LIST]
Thanks for the responses!
As great as VCP is, for NE runners the NXN Regional is on a more interesting, more challenging course at Bowdoin Park (Wappinger’s Falls, NY). I have been to the event three times and it is always a treat. Not only do you get to see the best teams in New England, they run the NY races on the same day so it’s a full day event. I agree with 300kicks that the NXN National Championship is run on a terrible course. The other reason, already mentioned, is that the NXN is explicitly a team event. Yes, they allow individual qualifiers and, they allow some mediocre teams who have one standout individual who could potentially qualify for Nationals. Both of these concessions are an attempt to draw the best runners from Foot Locker and have met with some success.
I disagree with resting for indoor. Take a couple of weeks off after the race and start competing indoor after the first of the year. That’s what most of the distance runners do.
C’mon Rustamon - you must be a big fan of Mark Twain who said: “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story”!
Who have been the top runners in MA and the Northeast over the past several years? Green, O’Donnell, Carpenter, Gallagher, Hubbard, John Murray in MA to name a few and a guy by the name of Cheserek from NJ. Other than Gallagher, whose not only had a chance, but actually qualified for NXN - every single other guy mentioned went to Footlocker! Why? Simple - a chance to qualify to go (all expenses paid) to San Diego vs. run as an individual at NXN. When you look at the top guys at NXN, they are coming from the top teams in the Northeast.
This is more true for NE guys than it is for NY guys. NXN draws most of the top NY individuals, since it’s so much easier to qualify for Nationals there (top-5 absent top team members in one state, vs top-10 in 14 or so states at FLNE).
Outside of team considerations… if I were a top individual, I’d definitely pick FL due to the Finals course considerations. I hope the “extra steps” they’re taking in Portland make a difference. The venue is so low though (pretty much right next to the Columbia) that I’m not sure there’s much they can really do.
This is a compare and contrast question - NXN v. FLN.
Is Portalnd Meradows more like “real” XC or Balboa.
The section of Balboa that the FLN course is on is a smal parcel of land half the size of Larz Anderson. The frisbee gold course at Balboa takes up morte space and has more interesting terrain,. It has 1 hill traversed 2x. It is 85 degrees. Not exactly what I think of for traditional XC.
If you have a strong enough team you should go for NXN obviously due to the fact that you can compete as a team. Where at Footlocker it is only individuals that can qualify. I think that should be the only thing that contributes to what race you do. If we were able to compete in both than I would say do both but we can’t so its a non-issue.
What about people like Nat Adams or Colin Bennie? They both ran as individuals at NXR and qualified for NXN.
“Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.” Mark Twain
My assertion (“story”) was that attracting individual runners to NXN had met with some success. Let’s see: Last year 10 of the top 13 boys at NXN were individual qualifiers from the regional races. And, while the girls didn’t have nearly that many, both Baxter (1st) and Cain (2nd) qualified as individuals. There are not many lists of the best high school girls in the country that don’t start with those two names (ask Eva N). I think that’s pretty good evidence that NXN has had some success attracting individuals to their event. Mind you, I don’t think it’s a good thing, but facts being what they are, we must learn to live with them.
What you have offered on the other hand is a good list of the some of the best high school boys to come out of MA over the past couple of years. Their choosing to run at FL does nothing to counter my fact-based assertion. Your statements are more like anecdotes or, in your parlance, stories which, oft times in order to be good, must not come into conflict with the facts.
I know you’re a big fan of Christian Stafford. If I remember you’ve mentioned him as a top runner in the state many times before, and he qualified as an individual at NXR last year.
Stafford > CMASS
Both great runners who are now at Dartmouth and Syracuse!
You are correct Nat Adams ran unattached in 2011 as a junior and then ran with his Lexington teammates (Lexington XC and they finished 25th as a team) in 2012. Colin Bennie ran unattached both years, qualified both years and did not go both years, as he choose to get ready for his hockey season.
2011 was a great year for MA XC as you had the 2 of them qualify for NXN + Pembroke as a team and had Hubbard, Green and Allen qualify from Footlocker. Who were the top 3 runners in MA that year? My opinion they were Gallagher (who ran with his team @ NXN), Hubbard and Green (who both ran as individuals at FL).
I still am a fan of C. Stafford and I still think he will be one of the top runners in MA this year - but you are incorrect about NXN last year - he ran with his Titan Track Club teammates, who finished 6th as a team.
Rustamon - again I go back to my Mark Twain quote!
My “facts” were clearly based on MA and then the Northeast qualifier - not the country. Also, bringing up MAry Cain is kind of funny - hmmmm? Do I run in the NIKE event, as a new member of the NIKE Oregon Project or do I run @ Footlocker? Really?
I am very well aware he ran with Titans Tc. But my point was he qualified for NXN individually last fall.
I’ve run a few races in Portland, incl. 1997 USATF cross nationals at Blue Lake Park, 2004 USATF Club Nationals on the same course the same day as the swoosh’s high school championship that year, and a low-key trail race in Forest Park earlier this year.
Racing in Forest Park was a blast, and would be the best course for the athletes without question. Anyone who’s run there knows what I’m talking about. Alas, from a logistical and spectator perspective it’s utterly lacking.
The course used by the swoosh at the racetrack is a joke–basically think of running a 5k on the infield of Suffolk Downs, in at atmosphere just as charmless as that dump. No amount of man-made “hills” (i.e. mounds of dirt), live filming from golf carts, or race updates via chip mats will make up for the poor site. In '04 we experienced similar conditions as they had last year which just added insult to injury, but it’s Portland in December so don’t expect a sunny day! However it’s convenient to the swoosh, they’re putting on the meet on their dime, so that’s where it’ll be.
Assuming the swoosh wants to host the meet on their home turf, IMO Blue Lake Park would be the best choice of site in the Portland area for both athletes and spectators to have a good experience.