MSTCA XC Invite


#1

Boys entered

http://www.mstca.org/Fall_Season/Fall%202011/mstca%20state%20coaches%20boys%20teams.html

Girls entered
http://www.mstca.org/Fall_Season/Fall%202011/mstca%20state%20coaches%20girls%20teams.html

Looks like alot of teams, last chance for non MIAA meet runners-good luck to all!


#2

Any word on condition of the course?


#3

Always interesting to see who races at this meet. Some teams have their guns going as a final prep for the divisionals while others sit out varisty runners. Some teams skip it all together.

I think it’s a great meet for younger runners in the frosh and soph races to see where they stack up against peers. Can really be a bonding race for a class year on your team to build for futrue seasons. Loved it when the frosh and soph races were scored. Godd day for many athletes to end their cross seasons.


#4

I did this real quick but I am pretty sure its atleast very close to correct…

Frosh Teams

  1. Lowell 75
  2. Methuen 94
  3. St Johns Prep 160
  4. Brookline 184
    *Shrewsbury also looked good hear but I couldnt find the 5th runner.

Soph Teams

  1. Newton South 88
  2. Lowell 115
  3. Brookline 127
  4. Dracut 178
    *Franklin & Newton North also looked good hear but I couldnt find the 5th runner.

#5

Verify?
4 under 18:00
25:under 20:00

Franklin Girls:eek:
Giese 17:50
Hagen 17:54
Stickles 19:18
Vetrano 19:19
Flynn 20:08


#6

The lead golf cart forgot to take the girls through one of the mini loops on lap #2 cutting off around 300m


#7

How about Seekonk - 6 guys at 11:14 or better in the Frosh 3k!


#8

I’m sorry to get fired up about a race I didn’t attend, but I almost brought my 8-14 kids here to get a last race in, and thank god I didn’t. Meet management shouild be ashamed of this. I have talked about finding an alternative race for this weekend elsewhere since the fiasco of 2 years ago. Why is it that with so many smart people in the MSTCA, this can continue to happen at this meet time and again?

So, juniors and seniors from large schools in Mass. got to race at Wrentham twice and ran 3.3 and 2.9 miles in the process? If this was my last HS race I would be furious.

I haven’t been to MSTCA meets this season, and with all the goodwill that the Twilight meet will bring, you can erase it with poor meet management from this one.

I’m willing to help the organization any way I can, but nobody ever seems to want my help. I’ve asked how I can get on the E board and been told someone would need to nominate me. Apparently they don’t want loudmouths who will tell them what they’re doing wrong.

I want myself and Warrior to join the E-board next year and start making some changes. The boat needs to be rocked, too many human errors are taking place for this to be an accident.


#9

I vote that your first order of business when you get on the E board is you get rid of the Wrentham course. It’s awful. Don’t get your blood pressure up mcrun, poor meet management by the MSTCA is nothing new. Same s**t, different course. Case in point; the Twilight meet was a great idea. Of course, the MSTCA hosted it at the absolute worst time of the season.


#10

I for one am thankful for the MSTCA and all they bring to the sport. I have been a proud member for many years and do not regret it at all. Are they perfect? Of course not. Who is? Do e-board members and meet managers work countless hours on behalf of our student-athletes? You bet they do! It’s easy for people on the sidelines to criticize. Try this; instead of expecting someone else to deal with your issues, get off your high horse and volunteer your time like these fine people do. And if you don’t like when a meet is scheduled, don’t go. Stop your whining and get involved.

/rant


#11

It seems to me that putting on a meet with over 1,000 athletes, many of whom haven’t run in a big race before, doesn’t need to be a part of the xc schedule. Why can’t coaches and the MSTCA figure out that running regional meets in Eastern MA might just be a better racing experience for everyone. Divide Eastern MA in to four regions or separate the areas by county, run all divisions together, so athletes get to compete against other teams they normally don’t face. You limit the problems with huge entries and you still have a good experience for the athletes.

There is just no reason to have such large fields and so many races all at the same place. Do I dismiss the fact that someone made a mistake, no. That should not have happened. But certainly if you had 4 different venues throughout eastern MA the meets would be far easier to manage and less likely to have errors that mess up the experience for the athletes.

By the way, I also don’t think that it is the end of the world if the race ended up short because of a missed loop. I know athletes like to compare times over a given distance, but it is xc, so the distance is never really very accurate to begin with. Whether it is 2.9 miles or 5k only is important in terms of comparing previous performances, in my opinion. It is not as if a small group of the competitors went off course, as has happened at other races.

Bottom line is that I think it would benefit xc if the races where kept manageable. Less time spent at the venue, less chance of errors being made, more fun for the participants overall.


#12

I agree that complaining about the timing of the twilight meet is a waste of time- enough teams found time for it that it was a success. I just think making the same basic mistake at the same meet 2 out of 3 years is inexcusable and needs to be addressed. Running the correct course is possibly the most basic facet of an XC race. I’d argue that their mistake might be that they are coutning on a person to ride ahead of the runners, so they don’t do as good a job marking the direction of the course beforehand.

It is a big deal to make these mistakes thoguh. Say a coach is trying to run a 10th grader and an 11th grader on the same course to get an idea who should run EMass. Now, that decision is out the window.

I’m grumpy about this because my sophomores 3 years ago ran like a 5 miler a week before the state meet, and it should never happen.


#13

Ok, so here are the stats according to my entering the stuff into athletic.net

There were 12 races (6 boys and 6 girls)

There were 105 teams represented

There were a total of 2408 athletes that finished the race.

So why would we want to put athletes, coaches, parents, bus drivers and meet officials through this? Might as well put on a huge road race down Rte 24 and set up various finish lines along the way. Then at least all the athletes would be going in the right direction.

I looked at a county map for eastern ma. It would be very workable (in my opinion) to run 3 different sections with the following makeup (although it ould be a number of different combinations, including scoring county vs county)…

Section 1: Essex and Middlesex County
Section 2: Suffolk and Norfolk County and Northern part of Plymouth County
Section 3: Bristol and remainder of Plymouth County and the Island Counties (Barnstable, Dukes and Nantucket)

As I said in my previous post, there would be no separation of divisions (div 1 and div 2 run together). If it could be split fairly evenly, it would mean there would be two races per Section of approximately 33 schools each.

Now I would think this would be much more manageable and I would think there would be three locations in Eastern MA that could host the meets. Certainly you could run one at Franklin, one at Wrentham or the Horse Farm Course in Barnstable and one up North somewhere (not familiar with large courses available up that way).

Anyway, I hope this gives some of you some thought as to what could be done that would be better organized and yet still a very competitive morning of racing.


#14

I am thankful as well for the MSTCA and the many people who work many of these meets. As you said they’re not perfect and when mistakes are made they should be held accountable for them. I hope they respond an I tell my athletes to when they fail - accept responsibility and try to do better. I think that is how they responded last time there was an issue with this course.

While Cohannet seems to not like this course I know many who do including my athletes. I favor mulitiple loop courses where you can see the whole race. Wrentham certainly is that.

Mcrun made it clear he would like to do more and has offered to be on the eboard. I think many of the MSTCA leadership has been there for quite some time and the association and the sport would benifit with involvement from more people.


#15

Great job by Coach Oullette getting these scores together on site. Really wish meet mangaement still scored the meet. Not happy Lowell took us down in both the frosh and soph race. Hopefully this isn’t a trend.

It’s really a point of emphasis in the Brookline program for class years to think of themselves as a team and to be working to be the next group of varsity guys. This race is the perfect way to end their seasons and get excited for the next seaon or year. Also good that most raced this course a month earlier and got to see their progress over the month. Some incredible improvemnets.


#16

Is my idea of separating into 3 regional eastern ma meets not even responded to because no one takes a “track” coach seriously? I feel neglected…:frowning:


#17

No one takes the old guy who wants to go back to his Jersey roots seriously. If you want to compete is the Jersey Shore sectional or whatever it’s called then go back to Jersey.

Putting on one meet at one venue is difficult enough. Getting officials and support staff to help isn’t an easy task. These MSTCA meets with a cast of thousands serve their purpose. There are plenty of other invitationals in XC for people to go to to get a variety of competition across divisions and leagues and even states. Best season for giving athletes a diverse array of competitve opportunites.


#18

Officials my friend, officials.

I think we should do what every other sport in mass. does and have a 4 section system (SMass, NMass, CMass, and WMass) and flow into the AS meet from there. FP can still host the NMass and SMass meets, just have one in the Am and one in the PM.


#19

I agree with trackmanpete. Get rid of the Coaches meet on the first weekend of november and have sectionals. Divisionals can be held on the same weekend they’ve always been on for those teams that qualify, and those meets will determine the qualifiers for the AS Meet. You can put down the system that Jersey uses all you want, Warrior. In my humble opinion it’s a better system. Thins out the number of teams for divisionals so the top dogs can compete for a spot in AS without all those superflous runners clogging up the course.


#20

We don’t have any problem competing with whoever is out on the course.