MA Cross Country 2017


Thought I’d get it started

CC coach Steve Lane has published article in August issue of Techniques on cross country race pacing. Impressive.


What are people’s thoughts on having the All-State meet at Wrentham?

I like Wrentham overall and with Franklin Park evidently not an option I don’t see where else we could have this meet. It’s a fair course, great for spectators, and there are plenty of meets throughout the season where teams can preview the course.

That said, in an ideal world I’d like to see the All State meet rotate between Franklin Park and Stanley Park, as in my opinion those are the two best XC courses we have in the state.


Great, they are finally holding an All-State XC meet after a 30 year hiatus?


2017 National Top 100 Boys Indivdual Rankings

Oosting 21st/Mah 81st/Shelgren 74th

Northeast Boys Team Rankings

SJS #2


Northeast Girls Team Rankings

Milton 9th




Pre-season polls are always fun to look at. Certainly some bulletin board material for some coaches as they start up practice today.


Girls Top 100

Grace Connolly 13th


I’m with you on franklin, just not Stanley.

I found the 5k course at least to be really poor for spectators, and the field loop can be altered depending on where race management places flagging. After 1k, that’s a long way before seeing your kids come through again.

That said, we simply don’t have enough great championship courses in this state, and we just lost the best one.


What are the odds that we would be able to get MIAA racing back at Franklin Park? I do not think the obstacle is the city per se, just that working with Wrentham seems to be preferable for being easier with race logistics. Will MSTCA XC committee bring this question to the table again at some point?


Franklin Park is the signature course and is the only fair way for kids today to compare themselves in history to some of the great runners of the 90’s and early 2000’s. The fact that at least some rotation through there does not exist is a shame. Every HS runner in the Northeast that attends college and runs will run at Franklin Park, not Wrentham or Stanley or Gardner. To me, Franklin out of the circulation would be like Van Cortland Park going off line in NY.


I couldn’t agree more with this post. :arrow_up:️ Taking history and tradition out of sport is like ignoring those who came before you. I don’t think that competing once at FP every three years for the All-State meet would be too much to ask from MSTCA/ MIAA.


I am guessing the big issue might be cost for all the Rangers, etc., parking, and autonomy. As to Stanley, it is a nice park, good location, decent parking, but the course down in the back is very tight for the large number negotiating the course. Gardner is a nice challenge, but I think the course could be redesigned to make it less confusing, using an inside/outside loop or outside/inside loop. That way it would be more user friendly and also a better spectator venue.


I still think Goddard Park in Rhode Island is the best course around. Tons of parking, close to highways, bathrooms and shelters, scenic course with woods loop, spectator friendly. Until Massachusetts can match this, there will be arguments for/against wrentham/Franklin Park/Stanley park.


Well, nobody seemed to mind taking the history out of the sport when they changed the Gardner course. That course had a longer history that Franklin Park’s present course.

Sorry, but every runner in the Northeast that attends college and runs has not run at Franklin Park, a few out of state teams showed up at the CM invitational, but other than that, it is primarily a Mass. only course, no comparison to VCP.


Franklin Park is arguably one of the best courses in the Northeast region and definitely the best course in Massachusetts. Completely agree with whoever said the notion that we can’t figure out how to get it once every three is absurd. I would agree with others that Stanley Park has some issues, but it gets the job done at an All-State meet.

Gardner on the other hand, is not a cross country course. It’s a golf course that can only be run on a couple times a year. You can’t get on there for a course preview unless you run in the Bay State Meet. Besides that, it’s an incredibly difficult course that is more of a sufferfest than a race. In my view it should be taken out of the rotation entirely. If anything, make Wrentham part of the rotation. I know it’s not in Central Mass, but the distance from Boston to Wrentham versus Worcester to Wrentham is close.



Did you ever see the old Gardner course? It is XC not fall track, it is not supposed to be easy, otherwise they would call it Field Hockey.

Another thing, take a geography class, Gardner is not Worcester. Think outside your EMASS mentality.

Parking alone at FP is not worth the hassle.


Somebody please describe their league meet courses: Borderland state park? Harold Parker state park?

It’s not like any of the college’s in the state have good courses either. Williams is probably the best but quite hard and very remote.


MSTCA XC Committee has pushed for the return of FP.

In fact, I personally went to the MIAA Track Comm meeting and used my allotted 3 minutes to endorse returning there.

I have advocated for FP at any and all EBOD Meetings of the MSTCA

Only 2response’s from the powers that be in the MSTCA/MIAA have been:

  1. No
  2. We wont be going back

I’m done…someone else can take up the challenge


Why are you so angry? Maybe I’m misreading your tone but that’s how it’s coming off.

Legitimate question: is Gardner an actual cross country course or is it a golf course that gets used for cross country once or twice a year? You can drive to Stanley Park or Franklin Park or Wrentham at any time and preview the course. Not the case with Gardner. The lack of access in my view is a major detriment to having it as the site of a championship race.

“Gardner is not Worcester” you say; clearly not, but Worcester is 36 miles from Gardner; Boston is 27. It’s not outrageous to suggest that the driving distance for many Emass teams to Wrentham is roughly equivalent to the driving distance to Gardner, give or take 10-15 minutes.

Lastly, the history of Franklin Park, where numerous championship races have been run including the World Championships in 1992, Open New England Championships every year, various league championships, NCAA regional meets, etc. far overshadows the history at Gardner. Would a major college conference ever even entertain the notion of hosting a meet at Gardner?