If USC


#21

Well look at the volume, people are more 100/200 than 200/400.


#22

Is that coincidence?


#23

Idk, why don’t you ask them.


#24

I wasn’t talking about 400m runners, I was talking about multi talented sprinters who did/do have the 400m in their history.

Examples

Roy Martin the HS 200m record holder was running sub 45.00 4x4 legs at Roosevelt HS.

John Regis the GB 200m record holder a sub 44.00 4x4 guy.

Mike Marsh the 1990 Olympic 200m champion was a 45.low 400 guy.

Pietro Mennea the former world record holder was a 44.3 4x4 guy and a European indoor 400 Champ.

Henry Carr the 1964 200m Olympic champ anchored our 4x4 team. Also anchored ASU to a WR in the 4x4.

Larry Black was a 43.5 relayer.

New Mexico’s Adolph Plummer was a 44.9 400guy. He decided to run the 200m at the Nationals. All he did was beat Jimmy Hines. How?

Tommie Smith was a world record holder in both the 200/400. Histories first sub44.00 relay split.

Lorenzo Daneil holds the NCAA 200m record, he was a sub 45.00 4x4 guy while at Miss State.

Tyson Gay can run a sub 45.00.

Xavier Carter was a great 400m guy.

Wallace Spearmon is a sub 45.00 4x4 guy.

Both Obea Moore and Calvin Harrison were Cali State 200/400 Champs.

Usain Bolt started out as a 400/200 guy.

Kenteris was a converted 400m guy.

Remember Yohan Blake gaining on Bryshon Nellum at Penn a few years ago on a 4x4 anchor?

Michael Johnson a 200/400 world record holder. Still the American record holder in both.

That group above far outshines those without that 400m endurance but 100m speed in a 200m. Those who don’t fit…

Walter Dix
Frankie Fredericks
Don Quarrie
Ato Boldon
Carl Lewis
Shawn Crawford
Joe DeLoach

Justin Gatlin was a 44.2 relayer while at Tennessee.

If we look at the world record holders dating back to the early 60’s

Henry Carr…45.4
Tommie Smith…WR 400
Pietro Mennea…European indoor 400 champ
Michael Johnson…WR 400
Usain Bolt…teenage 45.low

Remember Mo Greene, Frankie Fredericks and Ato Boldon trying to run with the slower MJ in a 200m? Why was he better in that event?

Tommie Smith owned the much faster Jimmy Hines in a 200m.

Henry Carr was beating Bob Hayes in a 200m.

Pietro Mennea running down Allan Wells in a 200m.

When we find a guy with “good” speed and that 400m prowess they do tend to outshine the 100/200 guys without that 400m history.

Derald Harris was a Cali HS 400m champ. The following year he’d win our National 200m while at Los Medanos JC.

George Rhoden winning both the 200/400 at the NCAA while at Morgan State.

Bryshon Nellum holding the Cali State 200m record. He is a 400 guy.

Both Danny Everett and Tyree Washington could run a sub 20.10. Neither could break a 10.40 100m. What does sub 20.00 guy LaShawn Merritt run the 100m in?

Here we see the 100m champ Javid Best vs the 400m champ Bryshon Nellum in the 200m.

//youtu.be/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPFlEaG_U9Q

As we saw, it was speed endurance that won that race. The 100 guy couldn’t hang with the 400 guy. Not that I’m talking 400 guys. Just those with 400m ability vs those without it.


#25

My point is simply that it’s not a coincidence that more 100 meter athletes run the 200 than 400 meter athletes. The 200 meter race is a purely anaerobic race, much like the 100. The 400m race is dependent upon the aerobic and anaerobic systems to be successful. Top end speed is the key to a 200. Strength is the key to a 400.


#26

See above for why your trivial stats mean nothing. You cannot take the freak of the conversation(MJ) and use him as your benchmark. He’s the only 200/400 OG winner of all time.


#27

See where your statement makes no sense? The top runners in the 200 are moving at a very high top end speed. Strength is obviously important, but it is by no means more important than pure speed. Which is why we see more people specializing in the 100/200 than the 200/400. The two events are much more similar. Quit with the half page post of stats. You said you wanted to have a discussion. Well bring something besides trivia to the table or gtfo.


#28

DNFTT. Thank you.


#29

To Avante, there are two words that would explain why a stud short sprinter would do well at 400… speed reserve


#30

You are totally missing my point. I am not talking about 400m sprinters over 100m sprinters in a 400m. I am talking about guys who do/can/have 400m ability along with 100m speed in a 200m.

Mo Greene
Donovan Bailey
Carl Lewis
Ben Johnson
Andre Cason
Valery Borzov
Frankie Fredericks

and others never didn’t do much of anything in a 400. I’m talking about those who did run the 400/4x4. Guys like…

Mike Marsh
Herb McKenley
Henry Carr
Tommie Smith
Pietro Mennea
Roy Martin
Xavier Carter
Usain Bolt

That’s where our world recorders come from.

100m speed will only take you so far, then the 200 bcomes more about endurance. That’s why those will that 400, ability have outshined those without it.


#31

Who is talking trivia? I’m showing you why the 200m is not about pure speed. If it was about pure speed then how did Tommie Smith own Jimmy Hines in the event? How did MJ beat the far faster Fredericks and Boldon? Why does John Regis run a faster 200 than Linford Christie? The 200m is about “sustained” speed. Those who can run fast longer. That’s why those familiar with the 400 have an advantage over 100m guys running the 200m.

Hell yes strength/endurance are more important than just blazing speed in a 200m. As we know nobody can run all out in a 100m much less a 200m so now what? Yep, “speed endurance”. Now who has more of that a 100/200 guy or a 200/400 guy?

Don’t look at this as some silly trivia whatever. It’s not, it’s simply the facts.

MJ is the American record holder in the 200m, yet he is just a 10.09 guy. So is it his blazing speed or his speed endurance? How come he runs 19.32 while far faster 100m guys Tyson Gay, Walter Dix, Mo Greene can’t break 19.5?

Why is the HS record of 20.13 held by a guy known for his 4x4 prowess in Roy Martin?

Why did you ignore Tommie Smith? He was a good 100 guys but not a great one. He was a great 400 guy since he did hold that WR. How was he beating Hines and Carlos in the 200m, both better 100 guys?

The 200m is not about 100m speed. It’s about the ability to sustain/maintain the speed. It’s an event more suited for a sprinter who can run the 400m, not a 100m guy moving up.


#32

Sprinters come in all guises, some are more 60/100…

Ira Murchison
Tim Harden
Lerone Clarke
Morne Nagel
Henry Neal
Mel Pender

Some 100/200

Carl Lewis
Ato Boldon
Frankie Fredericks
Valery Borzov
Bobby Morrow
Dave Sime

Some 100/200/400

Tommie Smith
Xavier Carter
MJ
Henry Carr
Pietro Mennea
Usain Bolt
Tyson Gay
Mike Marsh

Notice how that third group has five WR holders in it? Six Olympic Champions.

A stud short sprinter can run a 400, but it’s those who have that 400 abilty along with short sprint speed that set those 200m records. History has proven that.


#33

Why is it that Usain Bolt is a good but not great 400m guy but the wr holder in the 100m and also the current wr holder in the 200? Why is it that Yohan Blake is the second fastest 200m runner of all time yet is just a very good 400m runner and a rising star in the 100? Walter Dix, Tyson Gay, Xavier Carter, Wallace Spearmon, Fredericks, Mennea, Marsh…all 100m runners who are top 10 200 meter runners of all time. You can keep using Michael Johnson as your example, but like I said before, he is the freak of the conversation. If all you want to do is talk trivia, then you’ve been beat at your own game. When you’re ready to talk science, get back at me. The science of it says pure speed is more important. Very few runners have the ability to maintain as close to their top speed as Michael Johnson did. It is much more reasonable to look for a runner who has the pure speed required to run a sub 10 hundred meter out of the blocks and expect their 50-150 in a 200 to be much faster since it is on the fly. Like I said before, it’s good to have the strength and endurance, but it is by no means more important than the speed requirement of the race. Quite the contrary in fact.


#34

You really aren’t getting it at all.

Usain Bolt started out as a long sprinter, the 400m was his first event. Yohan Blake could run with Bryshon Nellum in the 400m as a high schooler. Tyson Gay is a 44.8 guy, Xavier Carter is a 44.5 guy, Wallace Spearmon was winning the 400m at state as a high schooler. I am talking about multi talented sprinters here…ok? Guys who can do it all as opposed to those who don’t. This isn’t about Lee Evans, Butch Reynolds or Jeremy Wariner. This is about those with sprint speed…and…that 400m ability. Those are the guys who have held the 200m world record since the early 60’s. No 100/200 has done that.

One more time…

Henry Carr…45.6ish/4x4 Olympic anchor
Tommie Smith…WR 400
Pietro Mennea…European indoor 400m champ/Italian Oly 4x4 anchor
MJ…WR400
Usian Bolt…teenage 45.3/sub 44.00 x4 split

Notice all of them ran the 400m? That’s what I’m talking about. Multi talented sprinters.

Xavier Carter is a 10.00 guy, yet he has ran a sub 19.70. How come his 200m is faster than 9.8 sprinters Frankie Fredericks, Carl Lewis and Ato Boldon? Could it be because he was also a 44.5 guy and they weren’t?

In 1972 the great Valery Borzov barely beat Larry Black (lane 1) in the Olympic 200m. Black was no 100m guy but he was a 43.5 4x4 guy.

You wanna talk science? In the 200m that starts with the abilty to sustain speed. Guys with the ability to run a 400 don’t have that advantage over 100/200 sprinters, hell yes they do and history has proven that.

I noticed you keep ignoring Tommie Smith…why? Tommie had a terrible start as a 100yard/meter guy. His thing was to come on in the latter stages of everything he ran, he had speed endurance. Like MJ he was a 200/400 world record holder. He owned the great 100m man Jimmy Hines in the 200, why? Yep…speed endurance.

You are way off on this. Just look at who holds the records.

100m jets last how long in a 200m? That’s right around 70 meters. Now what? MJ could whip up on 9.8 guys for a reason. Was it his superior speed…nope! Was it his superior speed endurence…absolutely! The same reason Henry Carr could beat Bob Hayes, Xavier Carter could beat Tyson Gay, Tommie Smith could beat Jimmy Hines, Kenteris could beat all those far faster 100 guys in a 200m.

Here we see a great example of what I’m talking about.

//youtu.be/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9gZL5qapBo

Allan Wells had already won the 100m. Mennea was by far the superior 400 guy. Did great 100m speed win that, nope.

How do guys like Obea Moore,Tyree Washington, Adolph Plummer, Bryshon Nellum, Calvin Harrison beat far faster 100m guys in the 200m?


#35

Avante, do you not understand that all of the guys you listed in the beginning of the above post are all sub 10 guys? Their 400 ability is BECAUSE OF their 100 ability. If you can run sub 10, but only have to average 11.25 per 100 in a 400, that is a lot easier to deal with.


#36

That is about as wrong gets, nobody runs anything in a 400m because of 100m prowess. These are two totally different deals.

Sustaining speed in a 400m is in another galaxy than what we see in a 100m.

You are as wrong as wrong gets.


#37

Because I don’t feel like quoting another ridiculously long post of yours…

Once again, 9 of the top 10 all time fastest 200 meter runners had blazing 100m speed. The speed is more important than the endurance. It is purely an anaerobic race. Making it more similar to the 100 than to the 400, which is a 35-45% aerobic race. Just because those runners can run the 400m doesn’t mean that the 400m strength is more important than the 100m speed. And your example of Tommie Smith’s start beig horrible is counterproductive to your point. He had 100m speed but couldn’t capitalize because he didn’t get out of the blocks well. Same for MJ, who was a notoriously average starter with blazing speed. Got any science or just wanna toss a few examples out there and continue to scream, “I’m right!”?


#38

Why are you not getting this?

Yes yes yes the 200m takes speed. I have never implied it didn’t. But it’s when we find those with the speed…AND…that 400m is when we get the records broken. Mo Greene isn’t beating MJ, Hines isn’t beating Smith, Wells isn’t beating Mennea.

Why are you totally missing my point? Speed…WITH…400m endurance is what all the 200m WR holders have had for the last 50 years. Stop ignoring that fact.

No the 200m is not about blazing 100m speed, that is not the event. The 200m is about sustained speed which is what a 400m guy has. That’s why all those who have held the WR were 4x4/400 guys to go with the speed.

How can you not see that? How many examples do you need?


#39

Avante, Please read this and then come back to us

http://completetrackandfield.com/?s=speed+reserve


#40

Read that before on another site. It’s not accurate.

The 400m is not about sprint speed, that’s why so many great 400 guys wouldn’t break a 10.30. The 400m is about speed endurance.

Mel Pender was a WR holder in the 60, he was also a two time Olympian in the 100m. He stood 5-5. No way in hell he is running anything world class in a 400m. That could be said about most great 100m guys who didn’t run the 400m as youngsters. Mo Greene ran a 48 something, Tyree Washington couldn’t break 10.4 in a 100m.

Lee Evans would destroy any 100m guy in the 400m, I don’t think he ever ran a 100m. Butch Reynolds in a 100m? Jeremy Wariner in a 100m?

The 400m is a totally different breed of cat than the 100m. It takes a different kind of sprinter most the time. Which is my point. When we do find those with 100m speed and that 400m endurance that’s when we see records go in thye 200m.