Hirsch attempting History


#1

As far as I know, few have tried and none have accomplished the individual triple at State, but will this be the first? For those that didn’t see the regionals heat sheets, Carl Hirsch is attempting the individual triple rather than the 3200 relay? Anyone surprised? Can anyone stop him? Will he make history?


#2

Nice! I know we talked about this last week, Coach. I’m excited for the possibility! I’m not sure who’d beat him in the 3200… Kromer hasn’t put up the times yet, but unless he’s injured, talent doesn’t just go away. Day 2, 1600? That’s Carl’s event. I don’t see anybody beating him if he’s on par with last year. The 800 will be the tough one. I’m guessing we don’t have to worry about whether he’ll be in the fast heat or not with Brad Johnson pushing him at sectionals… but the question is, can he run away from Brad Johnson after a 3200 on Friday and a 1600 on Saturday? We’ll see…


#3

Also, before he even gets to State, he will have a very tough comeback in the 3200 after already running 2 races and having only one heat of the 200 between the 800 and that race.


#4

After the Greater Metro Conference meet where I saw him whip around the backstretch in the final 200 I was convinced that Carl Hirsch could go 4:05-6 if pushed. A few reasons:

  1. Brookfield Central’s track is not ideal for fast times (adds prestige to Curt Anschuetz’s 4:11.1 track record there at sectionals in 1983)
  2. He led wire-to-wire and hit no man’s land (at 65s pace) during the second and third laps
  3. He can close in sub-30 no problem

I agree with you about the 800 being tough. I think that we are going to see a group of guys run out of their minds that we never suspected could. I think back to the ‘Ben Gregory’, Revival days where guys who went 1:58 at sectionals could run a 1:55 at state. Apply that to today’s fields and guys who go 1:55 at sectionals can go 1:52-3 at state.

I don’t see anyone else with Carl’s same closing speed so I am sure he will race conservatively where he can at sectionals. If he get’s on through in all three he’ll be making a run at state history for sure. Can he win all three? The fields are much better than when Chris Solinsky was in high school but Carl did some amazing things last year 1:48 split, 4:08, 9:12 which in my mind stands out as something very comparable to Solinsky.

Other noteworthy state triples:

  • Solinsky went 1:54 (including prelims) - 4:05 - 9:04
  • Gabe went 1:54 - 4:12 - 9:15 as a junior
  • Perkins went 1:56 - 4:15 - 9:18 as a sophomore
  • McKenna went 1:55 - 4:12 - 9:12 in D2

#5

Just a side note to this comment:

adds prestige to Curt Anschuetz’s 4:11.1 track record there at sectionals in 1983)

Anschuetz ran this all by himself. I think second place was Miller from Tosa East and he ran around 4:22-4:24 if my memory is correct. He then came back and ran around 9:30 to win the 3200 and the distance coach from Brookfield East was second for East in at 9:34 I think. Also, if my memory is correct, he then went to one of the summer invitational races and ran a 3000 meter race in 8:18 but never gets much credit for that which has to be one of the fastest 3k’s run by a Wisconsin high school boy.


#6

Kromer is not listed in any events at the New Richmond Regional. That takes out one major threat in the 3200m, and that is too bad.


#7

Anschuetz’s records have been forgotten almost as badly as Chuck LeRose’s except in Anschuetz’s case past statisticians have just been lazy. LeRose was wedged a little deeper beneath the surface.

The 8:58.08y was actually brought to the attention of Brookfield East’s athletic staff again in 2010 after various references here and a PDF was sent to one of the student athletes. In defense of the distance coach, he probably knew the whole time as he was a teammate of Anschuetz.

LeRose’s marks were different as he met the intersection of being (1) a private schools champion and (2) having post-season success when the media had given up on track for the spring. Further, the newspapers didn’t combine public and private school honor rolls making it even harder to recognize what he did.


#8

I think making it to state in all three events is the tougher issue for him than at state with the three races spread out over two days instead of in less than two hours. Having heard he ran a 58 second 400 split about 45 minutes after his last 800, I think it is going to be pretty tough to come back with much less rest and run a 3200. He will have to run reasonably hard in the 1600 and 800 and then with less than a half hour recovery, come back in the 3200 against Woodford, Campbell, Mews, Salmon, Paikowski, Browne and maybe one or two others I am forgetting, all capable of sub 9:30 on a good day. Only three make it automatically and last year it took 9:34 to make it in on time.

I am not doubting that he can do it as I am a big fan of his, but that is a tough triple at sectionals, especially with the quality of the fields in all three distance races.


#9

I just saw that the meet where he doubled the 800 and 4 x 400 was a boys only meet, so he probably only had about 25 minutes rest, similar to what he will have at sectionals between the 800 and 3200.


#10

He will also have the girls 3200, which will give him an extra 15 minutes or so.


#11

Here’s the individual distance events from both regionals: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dwTJeB3N

The Kettle Moraine Regional is not going to allow him to go slow in the 800. Probably a 1:56-57 just to get through. Then he’ll have some rest and go at it in the 3200 which will probably require about a 9:40 to get through. This will be slightly taxing on the legs three days later. When he get’s to sectionals there are no heats remember.

After the 1600 at sectionals is where things are going to get tricky for him as MUalum suggested. Meeting the members from the West Allis Central Regional adds pressure in the 3200 more so than it does in the 800 but between the time constraint and stacked 3200 field that is going to be a very tough triple.

Best bet is to attack mentally in the 1600. Take it out slow and let the others do most of the work and attempt to sit and kick without getting himself into too much trouble. Others will be trying to get in on time so I don’t see that race being won in slower than 4:17. If Hirsch get’s second or third who cares, it means he moves on.

The 800 he will likely meet Johnson and Gagne. Others will be hanging on their last thread and trying to earn their spot at the state meet. I can’t see third place being slower than 1:56.5. He’s going to have to stay out of trouble and kick and be aware that a 25-26s close to this race may zap his legs for the 3200.

The 3200 at sectionals will make or break this attempt. Not a good sectional to be in PERIOD for the 3200. RJ Salmon of Wauwatosa East and Vince Paikowski of Waukesha South will be fresh I am assuming and that is a huge concern. At any time when life is on the line for a senior a higher power/adrenaline can take control and do things it never did before. Things get really even trickier when your competition is filled with other respected studs like Campbell, Floyd-Mews and Woodford.

	  1        Patrick Campbell              SR Wauwatosa We        9:20.20 
	  2        Taylor Floyd-Mews             JR Wauwatosa We        9:37.61 
	  3        RJ Salmon                     SR Wauwatosa Ea        9:38.70 

	  1        Carl Hirsch                   SR Brookfield C        9:24.40 
	  2        Brad Woodford                 SR Waukesha Sou        9:30.00 
	  3        Vince Paikowski               SR Waukesha Sou        9:33.00 

If he runs 4:18 - 1:56.5 - 9:24 he’ll get through.


#12

At the 1996 WIAA State Track & Field Championships, Gabe Jennings won three individual distance events: 800 m (1:54.4), 1600 m (4:12.1) and 3200 m.


#13

I don’t think Hirsch will pull off the triple for a couple of reasons. Everyone in d1 is chasing him which will put a lot of pressure on him. To win all 3 events he will have to be able to go 9:05ish, 4:09, and 1:52. He may win the 3200 and 1600, but he will be dead after that for the 800 with guys like Eric Brown and Brad Johnson ready to put the last 200m down in 26, something that is extremely hard to do on tired legs. While I think that it will be difficult sectional for him to advance through, I think that he will get the job done. Hopefully he does ONLY what he needs to advance to state in the 1600 and 800 so he can save his energy for a stacked 3200m field at sectionals.


#14

Thanks for the corrected information. Is there anyone else that has achieved the distance triple in any division?


#15

I believe there have been a couple of D2/D3 kids that have done it, and I thought Eric Lueck and a Marquette runner (Matt Hayes?) did it in the WISAA days??

The trials of the 800 in D1 made it actually the Distance Quadruple back in the day…tough task for even the most accomplished of runners.

Looking forward to the last 15 days of the WIAA season - Good Luck to All!


#16

Here is my opinion as to who can beat Hirsch at sectionals and state based upon his competition and the events they are running as well.

1600 sectional - no one - he is the best miler in the state and this is his 1st event.

800 sectional - Brad Johnson - has the credentials and foot speed to beat Hirsch at sectionals but remember that Hirsch also has run 149 and 152 (this year) and is extremely strong. He just needs to run fast enough to make the state finals - he doesnt have to beat Johnson next Thursday.

3200 sectional - Patrick Campbell - has the strength and consistent times to beat Hirsch but this will also be a double for him as well. And all Hirsch has to do is finish 3rd to qualify.

3200 state - no one - and all he had to do is run to win at state. He can throw down a fast 3200 after the season if he wants. I think this winter and wet spring has hurt our 3200 performances in the state.

1600 state - no one - Hirsch dominated the 1600 at state last year and although we have some outstanding milers this year, none can go under 4:10.

800 state - Brad Johnson and Eric Brown II - both have the experience and foot speed to beat Hirsch in his 2nd race of the day but Hirsch has handily taken both of them this season in previous races.

On a personal note (coach), I hope he falls just a little short but I am also glad that he is not running the 3200 relay in place of the triple attempt. I want my young runner to face and race the best.


#17

The closest to pulling it off was McKenna I believe. Malcolm Wankel ran 1:55.0x to McKenna’s 1:55.8x.

Someone that did pull of a mid-distance triple but not THE distance triple was Ryan Jacobson of Gibraltar in 2000. He was the D3 WIAA state champion in cross country too.

48.85 - 4:25.80 - 1:58.83

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-itrack/mtt/jacobson_ryan00.html

**Profile is wrong on the 400 time
***48.85 is the D3 state record
**** He was overshadowed by Andrew Rock’s win in the Hurdle events, 200 and long jump.


#18

I think Hirsch is ahead of where everyone is putting him right now. He could go sub-9, 4:04 and 1:48 low on any given day if he had to. Assuming he only runs to qualify in the events and doesn’t run to win he should be fine doing the triple at state. He tripled last year with the 4x8 substituting the open 8 and look what he did. When it comes to state though I think he is going to have to go 9:10, 4:09, and 1:50 to pull off the triple, which I give him a 95% chance of being able to do, with that 5% of doubt all coming from the last 150 of that 800.


#19

One big difference however is the recovery time between the events, Hirsch had long rests between each of his events last year and this year he has a lot less time between them. He had around 24 hours to recovery after the 1600m, and at least 6+ hours after the 4x800 to recover for the 3200 last year. How much time is between the 1600m and the 800m typically?


#20

That Kettle Moraine Regional 800 is going to be crazy with the closeness of the seed times. Meet staff better have a good supply of body bags because that last 200 is going to be a war. Hirsch and Johnson would be well-advised to get well clear of the scrum right off the bat.

Hypothetical: Hirsch and Johnson are 20 meters clear of the field at the finish, but then there’s a crash in the 3-8 fight and a couple of guys go down. They appeal and somebody gets DQ’d. What happens then?